Here are the main reasons why our products may not meet your goals.
You begin with normal levels of testosterone..
They also will not cause muscle gains without strength training. You can not use these products and expect to see gains in size without weight training. And these effects just as with anabolic steroids do not magically occur over night. You should begin to notice strength differences within a few days and start to seeing physical changes within a week or so.
On the other hand you may feel the CNS effect of AndrosteDERM on the first day. This
may result in increased libido, energy, mood and concentration. These effects will
vary from person to person with regard to in tnesity and time it takes to notice the
effects. Some people notice the CNS effects within a day or so. In others it seems to ramp
up and start to take effect about 2 weeks in and peak about 4 weeks. If that is the case
with you, please continue your cycle for 6 weeks.
Necessity of individualized therapy
More complicated medical problems
Here are some questions to ask your self after using our products.
1. How does MedLean prohormones compare to other "andro" products that you
Q. Will AndrosteDERM increase estrogen levels in men to any degree? I am particularly interested in your answer. I wouldn't want any of our obese men who obviously have deficient testosterone levels to see an increase in estrogen and a chance of gynecomastia. What about in the area of athletes?
Anything that increases testosterone levels will in time increase estrogen levels. Estrogen levels are more likely to increase in men who are obese and who already high in estrogen as opposed to athletes who most likely have normal estrogen levels. But you should expect some increase in them as well. A greater elevation in estrogen may also be seen in a man with high levels of testosterone who uses androstenedione as it can directly convert to estrogen rather than testosterone. I have also found that estrogen levels are susceptible to increases if there is a history of steroid use.
The key point here is to know baseline levels of hormones. This will allow you to avoid problems and best determine the most appropriate product.
If estrogen is low then AndrosteDERM will be fine. If you have lhigh levels or a risk for high estrogen then with any increase in testosterone will be at high risk to convert to estrogen. The plan here would be to first treat the high estrogen before taking any andro prohormones.
In my experience testing and treating many men with prohormones and testosterone is if
there is a low baseline estrogen and minimal risks of high estrogen, there is no
need for an anti-estrogen as you do not need be concerned with increased estrogen for
short term cycled 3 to 6 week use.
If you test low for testosterone and your symptoms are significant especially for low libido and sexual dysfunction than AndrosteDERM will be necessary. You will then have to use some type of anti-estrogen therapy along with the lifestyle changes.
The best results in reducing estrogen can be achieved through the use of a prescription medication called Arimidex. It is a pure aromatase inhibitior and in many men is effective alone.By reducing estrogen levels it can relieve a pituatary feedback and subsequently increase testosterone levels. It is expensive but results can be very effective. I use it frequently in my medical practice.
There are also two new nutritional products that have been studied in humans that deserve attention. DIIM, diindolylmethane, an active metaboite of Indole 3 Carbinole and calcium c-glucarate. They both are being researched in humans for prevention of cancer as they enhance liver metabolic clearance of estrogen.
I would stay away from any products that contain Chrysin. First it has not been tested
in humans, second the doses needed to be effective are probably hundreds of mgs and third
even if it were effective it enhances only one phase of liver function which can results
in excessive free radical production.and lastly I believe that any one who puts chrysin in
their product can not be trusted. There is ZERO human research.
What I can say is that most of the time once gyno forms it is hard to get rid of
without surgery. But, significant and acceptable results can be made if you assure that
your estrogen and SHBG levels are low. Has the doctor checked these? If your reduce
body fat, insulin and estrogen levels in most cases it will not be a noticeable problem.
I do not understand why is it wrong to use these hormones to restore normalcy to
prevent illness and injury but alright to use steroids once someone is injured. Having
said all this, it would not be fair to use these products if other competitors in your
sport are not.
I wish to use pro-hormones like androstenedion and androstendiol to get the testosterone levels back in the normal range (often low during the long Tours) and even up in optimal values. As I have no idea of the natural ratios, it would be very interesting to know it before allowing the use of your gel during the competition period, and then determining the exact delays needed before official testing. I never used and will never use plain testosterone or steroids, but I believe pro-hormones is a good way as it keeps the levels in the physiological range (as you recall it in your E-mail).
As my cyclists don't use illegal drugs, I am not interested at all in illegal products
measurements in urine and only the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio. I would of course
be happy to study the effect of androsteDERM on them over-trained cyclists, which will be
easy to find among my 70 - 80 professional cyclists including 8 of the 100 bests
(according UCI classification).
Ironically, oral dosing of prohormones due to rapid conversion in the liver are not capable of steady state levels of testosterone in the blood stream but may cause short term elevations in the T/E ratio causing detection in the urine.
Interestingly, interindividal rates of T and E
relative urinary excretion differ considerably after administration of testosterone or its
precursors. Many men, especially Asian will not fail urinary T/E test even on
Here are lab results.
...Oral administration of androstenedione and/or androstenediol has a devastating
effect on the entire steroid profile, immediately increasing concentrations of
testosterone, androsterone and etiocholanalone and other endogenous steroids by 100 times.
Concentrations of testosterone rises faster than that of epitestosterone, which causes the
T/E ratios to exceed 6/1...
We tried AndrosteDerm on volunteers. It does not cause dramatic changes in urinary steroid profile, which is good.Results for Andro are difficult to interpret, because amplification in urinary steroid profile is very moderate and fluctuations due to urine density hide the Andro effect. T/E elevation is minimal and far below positive cutoff. I am waiting for your promised samples and, please send another bottle of AndrostaDerm. Our "volunteers" were very enthusiastic, they consumed it all
Q. How long do testosterone levels remain elevated after using Androstederm for two weeks at a time? I need to be able to return to my original level prior to frequent testing. I have not started using Androstederm yet but have been getting serum tests every two weeks and want to prevent the Androstederm applications from being discovered. So if I apply AM and PM, won't it elevate my testosterone levels as read by the SERUM tests?
It depends on the testing. You should not have a problem with urine testing even while
on the AndrosteDERM. T/E ratios almost always remain less than the 6 cut off. Serum
testing will also not be a problem. I have never seen anyone develop abnormally high
level. In fact, transdermal application of hormone sometimes require take a few weeks to
peak in the serum. The situation is different with salivary testing, which provide the
bioavailable testosterone levels. In this case it may take a week to three weeks for
levels to revert to normal.
In laymans terms:
There was three times as much 19-norandrosterone as 19-noretiocholanolone. Urine concentrations of 19-norandrosterone varied between 500 and 1800 ng/mL and 19-noretiocholanolone between 200 and 800 ng/mL. These ratios and quantities were consistent with administration of Nandrolone at the high end of dosing! The concentrations were pretty steady, during 24 hours period, compared to those observed for oral forms.
This confirmed that with a single application NorAndrosteDERM achieved relatively steady state levels over 24 hours.
Q. I have some signs of MPB. Will "andro" prohormones worsen the condition?
Yes. If you are concerned with MPB, I would not recommend the AndrosteDERM as it may
increase hair loss. Any time you increase testosterone levels you will alos increase DHT
levels which is more androgenic and promote hair loss in those who are susceptible. It is
also possible that andro in of itself may also play a small role. See the research below.
In practice the uuse of Propecia daily reduces the risk of the hairloss. Other potentially useful products in clude spiranolactone, Nizoal shampoo etc. For more information about hair loss I recommend that you read Will Brinks article "Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow" and visit the very knowledge web site of Peter Proctor, M.D. The guru of hair loss. He has a number of effective products!
A better option would be to use either ProMale or NorAndrosteDERM topically in cycles with sublingual Cyclo Andro-4Diol prior to workouts for a short term T boost. (Keep this to 4 times weekly and you will have no problems). Note: Use Propecia with caution with Norandro products as it may actually accelerate hair loss. See the question below.
Actually, according to Pat and Bill nor and Proscar are probably worse than not using
Proscar for MPB. Nor alone is not as bad as T for hair loss but nor and Proscar together
might be worse. The logic goes like this. T converts to a stronger androgen
(DHT) and so
blocking that conversion should reduce hair loss. However, Nandrolone is considered a
strong androgen which in fact becomes weaker with 5ar conversion to DHN. Therefore,
blocking this conversion and having more nandrolone in the system should be in fact be
worse for hair loss!
Sounds like it would logically, but in practice Propecia doesn't increase T levels. The
body has many feedback systems.
Hormonal gel delivery systems have been used for many years in Europe Without any problem. Patches for testosterone and estrogen have also been used for many years and have received FDA approval for this application. And I have used them in my medical practice for over 5 years without any problem. In fact, within a year a testosterone gel will be approved for use in the U.S. So, there is no danger to this route of administration. In fact, if there is any risk it is with the oral route of administration of hormones which most pass through the liver and then the lymph and blood stream. This process not only places stress on the liver, but creates many unwanted hormonal metabolites. Percutaneous applications are the optimal route for hormones.
In the many thousands of bottles of MedLean products used we have only heard a
These are the few undesired effects seen with AndrosteDERM:
Diffiiculty sleeping caused by excessive CNS stimulation. This is mainly seen the first week of use.
Bloating and Edema: This has occurred in men with a risk of high estrogen. (i.e. overweight or steroid use in the past)
Mild Swelling of the breast tissue seen in one man who was double dosing.Hair Loss - please see questions in on this page for a further explanation.
These are the few undesired effects seen with NorAndrosteDERM: Decreased Libido or Erectile Function - Due to decreased levels of testosterone. If this occurs
please reduce Nor dose and add in some AndrosteDERM.
Increased Blood Pressure. (Potential Side Effect Only) Due to the increased muscular water retention. USE caution when using this product if you have elevated blood pressure.
With proper use of the transdermal prohormones you should not
experience any adverse effects.
Q. I was considering using steroids and then came across your product NorAndrosteDERM. It sounds pretty good. I know what the effects are of this product and what bad things could happen. I am 18 and I was thinking of steriods cause I am getting too small to be on the football team. I know I should not be playing with this stuff, but I need something to make me big. How would steroids affect me?
Steroid use will must definitely build the most muscle mass and size. But to take advantage of them you would need to work out frequently and hard. The most benefit comes from the quicker recovery from training so taking steroids and working out lightly a few times weekly would be foolish. Obviously steroids are illegal and with the benfits come some significant risks for a young man. I would strongly advise agoinst using steroids although they can be used safely the risk benefits in someone under 25 are not worth it. There are many other safer options available these days such as whey protein, creatine and anabolic cycle dieting.
My general recommendation is that prohormnes should not be used by young men because their hormone levels are usually high to begin with. Prohormone are likely to be ineffective and cause an abnormally elevated levels of estrogen. including decreased natural production of testosterone with cessation of use and the development of small amounts of breast tissue.
Having said this, my personal work with athletes has uncovered frequently lower than optimal levels of testosterone in intensely training athletes. When hormonal balance is restored muscle mass, strength and recovery improve. So, my first recommendation is if you are serious about performing at your best chcek your hormone levels through salivary testing to determine a baseline. If levels are less optimal than use of prohormones may be justified.
With this information you can then way all the risks and
benefits. If you still must choose between steroids and prohormones. My first choice would
be NorAndrostendione as it is the most anabolic and does not convert to estrogen or DHT.
And when used in short cycles it is unlikely to cause ill effects and suppression.
The effects will not be as dramatic as the roids but infinitely safer. There really are
few side effects. The only problem being that if he uses alot of the Nor for a long period
of time he may suppress natural testosterone production which later in life may cause him
some difficulties. You will need to worry about testing positive on urinary drug tests.
Your best prevention for problems would be to verify effects and changes by monitoring your salivary testosterone levels. You can purchase a test kit to get a baseline and then test two weeks after a second cycle to see where you testosterone levels are. If they are decreased then take a break!
This will avoid you getting into difficulty.
So to sum up: I do not recommend using any hormones unless you are deficient. But if you must, do it wisely and precautiously and you will most likely be Ok.
AndrosteDERM is generally not recommended for woman as the androgenic effects and elevations in testosterone levels may resulting in the masculinizing effects of acne, hair growth , abnormal menstrual cycles etc. But with careful monitoring of signs of excess testosterone, AndrosteDERM and testosterone can be safely and effectively used in woman. I use it frequently in my practice. Many woman who have low libido or low testosterone report increased libido and sexual satisfaction when using AndrosteDERM in low doses.
If you use AndrosteDERM use it in low doses 0.5 ml 5 days weekly. You should also consider our soon to be released sublingual Cyclo Andro-4diol as it may work well and allow for shorter duration of action.
Q. I am a 27-year-old female, into bodybuilding, very good health, never have taken any andro supplements before. I am getting ready to start using AndrosteDerm by MedLean and was wondering if there were any research about it's effect on women. In a pamphlet on AndrosteDERM, it says the product is NOT recommended for women. Is MedLean not recommending it for women because it is possibly risky for women, and they don't want to be liable for it. Or are they not recommending it because AndrosteDERM is absolutely and in all cases very bad for women?
If libido is good and you are only interested in fat loss and lean mass
gains, use Cyclo Nor-Stack two times daily or 1/2 ml of NorAndrosteDERM. Please use these
in 4 week cycles and look for signs of excess androgens such as hair growth or acne. A
small amount of andro or NorAndro in a montiored situation is fine for woman.
NorAndrosteDERM is a better option since it is less androgenic.
Q. Every time I have taken DHEA my prostate feels like it is going to burst. I need testosterone but I am concerned about prostate problems?
It is very likely that when you take DHEA it is being converted to estrogen preferrably rather than testosterone. You most likely already have high levels of estrogen which are causingyour testosterone levels to diminish. If this is the case, you will need anti-estorgen therpies along with the use of 17-keto DHEA. You may find ProMale is an effective product for you. You need to have your testosterone, DHEA and cortiosl levels checked.
Q. I am a 57 yo male. I had a slight enlargement of the prostate.Went on DHEA and saw palmetto and all returned to normal. I have tried AD and 4AD and enlargement returned. So I tried the NorAndro products and all remained normal. What effect do you think AndrosteDerm will have?
I suspect that the AndrosteDERM will also cause you some difficulties. But it is possible since you had good results with DHEA that becuase the formulas are topically applied and restore testosterone levels you will be OK. But most likely you have higher than normal estrogen levels which were reduced on the norandro since it reduces estrogen levels.
Once again the key to optimal health is to maximize
testosterone and minmize estrogen. Sometimes to do this requires other measures to reduce
Q. I have read that the body's own production of testosterone would not be limited by taking andostenedione like supplements because of the very transiency of the effect -- roughly 1 to 3 hours. But if your product is released gradually and continuously, doesn't that signal a possible danger in respect to the body's own "signal" to produce testosterone?
While the first part is true and now has been shown in at least three studies. But the fact that oral dosing of androstenedione does not cause pituatary supression may be just due to the fact that it does very little to elevate levels of testosterone. I say this because ifyou follow a testosterone serum level curve of someone after taking a cyclo product the levels will rise rapidly over 30 mintues to 2 hours and decline by 3 to 4 hours. The end point of this spike seems to be lower than the starting point suggestion a minor pituatary inhibition as well. I believe that the more rapid rapid acting the elevation the more surpression you will see.
That is not to say that if you take high doses of transdermal prohormones for extended periods of time you will not get down regulation of testosterone levels. In my clinic when used properly I have not personally observed with patients have difificulty. By properly I mean, using the lowest effective dose, cycling either monthly or taking a few days off weekly and one week off monthly. And when used for long periods of time combining the use with Tribestan or Deprenyl.
Q. I just finished a cycle of cyclo prohormones a month or so ago while dieting down for a bodybuilding contest. I did get what I felt were good benefits from them but I also noticed a decrease in my libido once the cycle was over. This may have also been due to my dieting for the contest. I was curious as if the "derm" products were better at limiting this decrease in natural testosterone production. The more I have read concerning the prohormones, the more concerns are raised that this may be happening and I'd like to minimize this if possible. Thank you for your help and time.
Thanks for the question. It is a good one. At this point the jury is still out on pituatary suppression. My feeling is that the quicker you raise T and the closer you are to the end hormone the greater the risk of suppression. Therefore testosterone injections, followed by sublingual prohormone and lastly topical prohormones. With slower absorption the body has time to adapt to the prohormone and regulate it's conversion. While it is true that high doses of testosterone can shut down pituatary function and decrease natural production for a period of time, it has only been postulated that the prohormones would have this effect. Personally, I believe because we are not directly replacing testosterone and only creating physiological levels of testosterone pituatary surpression is not the same issue as with testosterone replacement.
The advantage of the prohormones topically being the release is slower, a disadvantage is that they are around all the time but the body will convert as needed. My recommendation is to cycle use 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. Although in men who have low T, I will have them use lower dosing 1/2 to 1 ml daily on a longer term basis 5 days weekly.
Also, you are more likely to have difficulty with libido after a cycle of Nor if you have moderately low T to begin with as this will cause some suppression of T.
So the upshot on pituatary surpression:
Use the DERM products because it does not cause the rapid up and downs.
Use as little as necessary to get the job down. Start with 2 ml and then see if
reducing the dose will give the same effects. Consider using perhaps Tribestan or Deprenyl
for pituatary stimulation. And lastly if you can monitor your hormones after and before
one or two cycles so you know for sure. Salivary testing is best here.
Cyclodextrin Molecules We probably will switch over to the hydoxypropyl in the future for marketing reasons. But at the current time, I really am not convinced that there is that much of a difference clinically between the two cyclodextrin delivary systemss. There is no doubyt that the hydroxypropyl provides improved absorption but because there a limit to total prohormone absorption capabilities in the oral tissue it may not matter that the HPCD is 40% better (maybe). I do hope to study this in the future. Also there has always been some concern about whether the HPCD is considered FDA GRAS.
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Product Formulatons Q. I have read that androstenediol cannot directly convert into DHTor aromatize into estrogen. And only that which converts into testosterone will aromatize and/or convert into DHT. However, these is not the case with Androstenedione which can aromatize directly to estrogen.
This is true!
Let's look at our formulas.
In my experience as a physician, discussions with body builders and personal trainers, the feeling is that high spikes of testosterone are only helpful indirectly. Because muscle growth occurs during recovery periods not during the workout, it stands to reason that short spikes of testosterone before a work out are not going to produce the same results that will occur with consistently high levels of testosterone. Spiking levels of testosterone are probably only beneficial because when taken prior to a work out or competition they improve strength and energy allowing for better workouts. It is also possible that they also may be beneficial by reducing post work out cortisol levels.
The problem is with oral Andro
products is that in order to cause spikes in testosterone high enough to achieve
beneficial results, large amounts must be taken. This will very likely over load the
bodys enzymes and either waste the product or cause conversion to other unwanted
metabolites including estrogen.
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There is no need to refrigerate these products. Just store at room temperature. The only advise would be to keep out of very hot or very cold temperatures as found in a car park outside.
The length of use of prohormones will be a factor. If you are going to cycle on and off every 4 to 5 weeks than it is not a problem, but if you need to use longer than it is important to montior hormone levels, reduce the dose to 1/2 to 1 ml daily and perhpas use an anti-estrogen.Recommended Training Protocols
Obviously with many products on the market such as HMB, glutamine, creatine etc.everyone wants you to believe you need their products. Do not forget the basics.
Adequate protein - 1gram per pound of body weight and 5 to 6 meals
To this: Add a high quality multivitamin mineral supplement, extra magnesium and zinc, fruit and vegetable concentrates, glutamine after workouts and at bed time and cycle creatine every 6 weeks.
Prior to your workout:
To decrease cortisol
- Vitamin C 4000mg and/or Phosphotidyl Serine 1000mg.
After your Work Out:
To replenish glycogen, improve muscle recovery 30 grams Whey Protein, 10 grams creatine, 70 grams high glycemic carbohydrate
Here is an add for "5-Androdiol- Anti-catabolic. Supress cortisol and estrogen production."
The latest testosterone boosting supplement. 5-Androstenediol is sold in Europe as
METHANDROL. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL stimulates the immune system 100 times more than DHEA and
androstene. This is extemely important to weighlifters who are constantly putting stress
on thier bodies which in turn makes them more prone to illness. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL has also
been shown to suppress the catabolic hormone CORTISOL, which is released during heavy
lifting. Excessive cortisol can prevent muscle growth and cause muscle deterioration.
Excessive testosterone production can cause an increase in Estrogen (female hormone )
production. 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL has been shown to block estrogen production. All these
attributes makes 5-ANDROSTENEDIOL an extremely anti-catabolic supplement. Must stack with
19-NORANDROSTENE to get the full benefit.
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